In today’s episode, we help Kevin decide between a course and a membership.
Jocelyn Sams: Hey y’all, on today’s podcast we help Kevin decide between a course and a membership.
Shane Sams: Welcome to the Flipped Lifestyle Podcast, where life always comes before work. We’re your hosts, Shane and Jocelyn Sams. We’re a real family that figured out how to make our entire living online, and now we help other families do the same. Are you ready to flip your life? All right, let’s get started.
Shane Sams: What is going on everybody, welcome back to the Flipped Lifestyle podcast. It is great to be back with you again today. Super excited to help another member of our Flip Your Life community take their online dream to the next level. We’re really excited because we have met this member in person last year at Flip Your Life Live. Our guest today is Flip Your Life community member, Kevin Crowe. How you doing, Kevin?
Kevin Crowe: I’m doing good, how you doing?
Jocelyn Sams: We are great. It is great to talk to you today. Love Kevin’s story, because he came into the live event last year, and it was so funny because he and another member of our community, Nick, they came up to me, I think it was at the reception, and they’re like, “Hey, we’re introverts too.”
Shane Sams: It was all secretive like, “There’s a club. We’re the introvert club, and we’re in it. So, we’re all in it together.”
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, and I was pumped. I just … I always will remember that, because it was just awesome. Like coming up, and they’re like, “Hey, we’re kind of like you.” So, it was kind of cool. But you’ll be really happy to know, Kevin’s coming back to the event this year, and we’re thinking about even doing an introvert room.
Shane Sams: Yeah, we’re going to have it at Flip Your Life Live, dude, we’re going to call it The Quiet Room.
Kevin Crowe: That’s awesome.
Shane Sams: Yeah, it’s going to be off over to the side, so during the working … So, how Flip Your Life Live works, for everybody that’s not been, Jocelyn and I get up on stage, we answer questions from the audience, and do all of our content, but then we actually have breakout sessions where we work on what we just learned. It’s really chaotic when you put 100 people in a big room.
Shane Sams: It can get loud, people are talking, there’s some music playing, but this year we’re going to have the spa room, the quiet room, where we have the lights turned down a little bit, and it’s like you go in there’s going to be a sign that says, “Shh, online businesses being built.” So, there’s going to be an introvert room, man. It’s going to be awesome. We thought about you, Kevin, when we came up with it.
Kevin Crowe: That sounds like paradise. Last time we just kind of tucked ourselves away in the back corner table.
Shane Sams: It was … Everybody’s just got their hoodies on just looking down.
Shane Sams: It’s alright.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, exactly. I was talking to Shane earlier, and he’s like, “Oh, you know, two introverts, it’s going to be … I’m going to have to talk a lot this show.”, and I’m like, “Listen, introverts are not necessarily shy, they just need to be alone to process things, and to gain their energy back, that’s all.”
Shane Sams: Yeah, we were having a meeting yesterday, Kevin, you might be able to relate to this, and Jocelyn, I was like … When I start talking I don’t stop, which everyone-
Jocelyn Sams: Well, if you listen to our podcasts-
Shane Sams: To our podcasts you know, but as I was … We were writing ideas on Post-it Notes, and I looked over at Jocelyn, and she was carefully writing these ideas on her Post-it Notes in perfect handwriting, and I’m just flying Post-it Notes out, I’ve got like 25 Post-it Notes, she’s on the third one, and then when we started talking about them, I just start laying out Post-it Notes, and she’s like, “Dude, calm down, one at a time. Let me process this. Let me see what your first Post-it Note is before we’re on Post-it Note 12.”
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, Shane, he wants to hit me with this firehose of information at all times, and I’m like, “Bro, I have to process this.”, and then he wants to ask me questions, and me to just spit something out, and that’s not how I roll. You know this, Kevin, that’s-
Kevin Crowe: Oh yeah.
Jocelyn Sams: … we have to think about it-
Shane Sams: You got to absorb-
Jocelyn Sams: … and process it, and-
Shane Sams: … all the information, basically.
Jocelyn Sams: … Yeah, all right, well, it is always good to have a fellow introvert on the show, and we’re excited to talk to you today about moving your business forward. You’ve had some really interesting things going on, and we will get into that just a little bit later. But first, tell us a little bit about you and your background. How did you get into all this?
Kevin Crowe: Yep. So, I live in Calhoun, Georgia, about 50 miles north of Atlanta, just me and my two dogs. No wife, no kids, just a girlfriend. But, I was born in Michigan, but I’ve lived in Georgia most of my life, so I definitely say y’all. I’ve worked in shipping and logistics for most of my life, and right now I’m working for a logistics company up in Chattanooga. But, I recently changed jobs there. I was working in operations for a while, but now I got a new position in marketing, and I’m able to work from home most of the time. I might go to the office maybe one day a week. So, that’s really helped me to start the flip my life process.
Jocelyn Sams: So, tell us a little bit about that process. I’m assuming that somebody in your company didn’t just come to you and say, “Hey, Kevin, you seem like a good candidate for working at home.”
Shane Sams: And that’s pretty amazing too, because one thing we’ve talked a lot about this year on the Flipped Lifestyle podcast is flipping your life means taking control of your time more than anything else. That’s like if someone asked me, “What does flip your life mean? What is the flipped lifestyle?”, it’s you get to wake up and choose what you do. Yes, we all have things to do, and we have deadlines, and we have all this stuff, but you get to pour your coffee, you get choose where you go during the day, you get to pick when you work, and you kind of created that even before your online business is off the ground. So, how did that happen?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah, exactly. I’ve been listening to you guys for years, and a bunch of different online podcasts, so I’ve learned a good bit about online marketing. Not enough for my own business to take off yet or anything, but I noticed a need with our company that we didn’t have much of an online presence, or weren’t really doing much with marketing, so I approached my boss and just, I told him the things that I saw, the needs in our company, and he basically just created a position for me, and now I’m working at home, I’m loving this job, and just taking the things that I’ve learned.
Shane Sams: How often do you actually go into the office.
Kevin Crowe: Well, the last time I was actually in the office was about two weeks ago.
Shane Sams: That’s amazing.
Kevin Crowe: Yeah. It’s just kind of … I go when we need to have meetings and stuff like that, but other than that I can do my job completely from home. I got a pretty sweet home office setup, and I just chill here with the dogs.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, that’s awesome.
Kevin Crowe: They’re asleep under my feet right now.
Jocelyn Sams: That sounds like my dream job. I’m here with my dogs right now, we’ve got two labs, but yeah, so this is actually very similar to something that happened to me a long time ago when I still worked in the corporate world. I had been there I guess about four years, and there were some changes going on in my life. Shane had moved to Alabama for a time, and if you guys have listened to our backstory podcast you know all about that, how we sort of went our separate ways for a little while, and then we decided we couldn’t do that anymore. He got a job opportunity in West Virginia, and I was still working the corporate life, and I’m like, “This is not going to work.”, because my company was in Kentucky, and we were going to be living in West Virginia, and so-
Shane Sams: It was like a … How long a drive was that?
Jocelyn Sams: Probably about six or seven hours.
Shane Sams: Yeah, it was really far away, like a really long drive.
Jocelyn Sams: So, basically I just went in, and I’m like, “You know, I’m going to be moving, so is there any way that we can work something out?”, and at first they’re like, “I don’t know if that’s going to work.”, and after thinking about it for a while we were able to come up with something that worked for everybody.
Shane Sams: This was back in like 2000 and … was it 2005, or?
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, 2004 I think.
Shane Sams: 2004, or 2005 when it wasn’t normal to work on the internet, or work at home back then. So, it was kind of radical that Jocelyn would even ask this, but she was the marketing coordinator. So, literally all she did all day was call people, coordinate projects, work online, send files, do things like that. So, it was actually like, “Man, you could totally do this over the internet.”
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, and so I just asked. I’m like, “What’s the worst thing that can happen? They might tell me no.” I loved the way that you did because you had a plan, you wrote something out, or I assume you did, and you went in, and you’re like, “Hey, these are the weaknesses I see, this is the benefits that I can bring, and is there a way that we can work this out?”, and I think any smart business owner would at least consider it.
Shane Sams: Yeah, for sure. What did your boss say when you asked him that?
Kevin Crowe: Well, he said that it’s been something that he’s been thinking about for a while with our company, and he saw the need too, he just hasn’t really had time to address it, and he was thinking about going outside, making an outside hire, but that he was excited that I was excited about it, and he just said that he would rather have somebody who’s already been experienced at the company to take that role over anyways. So, it worked out well.
Shane Sams: Wow. That’s awesome, dude. Well, good job, and anybody out there listening, have the courage … Some of you are like, “Man, I really wish I just had more time.” We hear this story actually happen time and time again in the Flip Your Life community, people will go to their boss and say, “Hey, can I work remotely two days a week? Hey, is there a new need for a new position? Hey, what can we do to give me a little bit more flexibility?”, and then they free up time all of a sudden to do their side hustle, or gain control of their life, or get some more freedom to be able to spend with their family, and that’s really the goal.
Jocelyn Sams: And I think though sometimes people are just so scared to ask. We had a member not too long ago who worked for like the federal government, and she was like, “There’s no way. They definitely won’t let me do this.”, but they did, they let her go part-time. I actually planted that seed … It’s Wendy, you guys might have heard her podcast, oh, she’s been on the podcast before, but anyway, I planted that seed. I had met her at an event, and the two of us were talking, and I was like, “What are the possibilities …”, because she was driving, I think it was like … Was it like 90 minutes, or something?
Shane Sams: It was ridiculous. Her commute was insane.
Jocelyn Sams: It was a crazy commute, and I’m like, “What if you could work it out where you could only go a couple days a week?”, and she’s like, “Oh no, that’ll never happen.”, but then she contacted us not too long after that, she had a conversation with them, and they said yes.
Shane Sams: Yeah, so, I mean, the worst they can say is, “No.”, right?
Kevin Crowe: Exactly.
Shane Sams: 99% of the time they’re not going to be like, “I can’t believe you asked that, you’re fired.”, you know what I’m saying?
Jocelyn Sams: No, and I think that what you can do also, just for anybody out there listening, is just reassure them, “Hey, I’m not planning on going anywhere, but I thought that this would be a really good opportunity.”, blah blah blah. There’s a way that you can present it where it doesn’t sound negative like, “I hate this job, and I’m getting out of here if you don’t let me do this.”
Shane Sams: So, what a huge change it’s going to … just to give you more … You’re not driving to work every day, if that alone saves you the time and energy to start to be able to start your own side hustle and things like that, what an amazing opportunity it is. But I’m going to tell you here, Kevin, when people listen to this back you’re actually going to get in trouble, because a few minutes ago you said, “I live down here with my two dogs, and no wife and kids, just a girlfriend.”
Jocelyn Sams: I know, I caught that.
Shane Sams: I can’t wait until your girl listens to this, and goes, “Oh, I’m just a girlfriend, Kevin? That’s all I am, just a girl. Just a girlfriend over here on the side.” So, what’s her name? What’s your girlfriend-
Kevin Crowe: Yeah, woops. Annalise.
Shane Sams: What is it?
Jocelyn Sams: Annalise?
Kevin Crowe: Her name’s Annalise.
Shane Sams: Annalise, when you listen to this, I’m just telling you, I called him out.
Kevin Crowe: Well, I just meant that she doesn’t live here with me.
Shane Sams: Right, I got … I understand. I’m just trying to dig you out of a hole that you dug-
Jocelyn Sams: Exactly.
Kevin Crowe: Thank you, sir. I appreciate that.
Jocelyn Sams: Okay, Kevin, so now we are ready to hear a little bit about what it is that you are doing online. What made you decide to start an online business, and what are you working on?
Kevin Crowe: Okay so, I’ve been thinking about online business for years. A long time ago I started a football blog, not really having much of a direction or knowing where to go, but as I got to thinking about what I could do online I realized that one thing that I love that I’m good at and that I know a lot about is fantasy football. So, a lot of my coworkers would ask me about fantasy football advice, or what it is, how it works, and that just sort of made me think that I could do something with that online.
Shane Sams: What’s your blog called? Is the blog the same site as your online business now?
Kevin Crowe: Yep, it’s thefantasyfootballcoach.com.
Shane Sams: Oh wow, that’s a good domain name. That’s really cool.
Kevin Crowe: Yeah, I was surprised that it was still available.
Shane Sams: What’s your background with fantasy football? Were you old school, doing it on paper before you could do it online and stuff? What got you into fantasy football, and how did you become the go-to guy at the water cooler to see who’s starting their quarterback this week?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah, well I just love football, and most of the people who know me know that I’m pretty obsessed with football in general, but I don’t quite go back to the paper days, but I did start back in like 2001, 2002, so it’s the pretty early days of online fantasy football. I got into it from some coworkers and friends wanting me to join their league, and I had no idea where to start. So, I learned it pretty quick, and I’ve just been playing it for a long time, and people at work just tend to come to me and ask me, because they just know that I like football, and I play … I’m in like five or six different fantasy leagues.
Shane Sams: You’re playing in-
Kevin Crowe: So, I just-
Shane Sams: … Let me tell you something, that’s time consuming y’all. Here’s how … For people who don’t know, what fantasy football is, is you get a bunch of people that are friends, and you get together, and you draft real players. So, if I’ve got the first pick, I might say like, “I want Eli Manning.”, I would never pick him first, but he’s at this point in his career. But you know what I’m saying, you pick your quarterback, then Kevin gets to pick, then Jocelyn gets to pick, and we go through the rounds. Basically you pick, and you draft a team, you have a quarterback, you have a running back, you have a defense, you have receivers, and-
Jocelyn Sams: And they can be from different teams in the league.
Shane Sams: … they can be from different teams, right, and then what happens is you watch the games on Sundays, and you watch all the games, because you might have a receiver playing in one game, and then your defense is playing in another game, and then your quarterback’s playing in another game, and then they actually add up the stats of those players, and create a score. So, if me and Kevin are in a fantasy football league together, all my players get to add up, and they have a score, and then all his players add up, and they have a score, and then we basically win or lose the game.
Jocelyn Sams: So, Kevin, each thing is worth some type of points, right?
Kevin Crowe: Right.
Jocelyn Sams: So, if you get a tackle, if you get a sack, all these different things are worth different amounts of points, right?
Shane Sams: Jocelyn’s showing off her football … That’s the wife of a football coach talking right there, guys.
Jocelyn Sams: You know what’s hilarious is before I met Shane I knew absolutely nothing about football. I mean, I knew that if you scored it was called a touchdown, but that’s pretty much it.
Shane Sams: After about 10 seasons of being a football coaches wife she knew way more than some of the coaches I’d hired before, I’m just saying.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, I won’t say that I’m an expert, but I do know a lot about it. What’s hilarious is that one of the schools that he worked at was so pitiful at football, oh my gosh, I mean it was so bad.
Shane Sams: We were bad.
Jocelyn Sams: But anyway, the cheerleaders of the high school team, they didn’t know anything about it either. So, I would always sit on the front row, and I would have to tell them if it was offense or defense. They had no idea.
Shane Sams: They didn’t know, they’d be like, “Defense … defense.” I’d be like, “We’re on the three with the ball, what are you talking about?”, and yeah, so Jocelyn had to straighten that stuff out for us like really, really fast. But really, people don’t understand though, fantasy football and fantasy sports in general is like a major multi tens of millions of dollar industry where people are playing online, people playing in their pools for money, like the winner’s going to win money. There’s a very … There’s incentive, even if you’re just playing in a local pool with 12 people, to win, because everybody might’ve put in 100 bucks, there might be a $500 price, or you’re playing online for prizes and stuff.
Jocelyn Sams: And it just kind of makes it more fun to watch.
Shane Sams: Oh, yeah.
Jocelyn Sams: I know you’ve done it before, right, years ago?
Shane Sams: Oh yeah, I don’t like pro-sports at all. I only watch college football, college basketball, except for NFL when I draft, because if I do a fantasy draft, every game matters, and you’re just glued to the TV all Sunday, because you may be coming down to the 9:00 game, and it’s over on the west coast, but you’ve got a guy playing, and you’re down three, right?
Kevin Crowe: Yep.
Shane Sams: So, it makes the games themselves way more fun.
Jocelyn Sams: All right, so you’ve realized that you had this kind of talent, because people were asking you about something, and we often talk about this, people say, “Well, I don’t know what I would do online.” Well, like Kevin said, he said, “Oh, well, people are always asking me about this, and they see me as an expert in this field. So, maybe I’ll give this a try.” All right, so you started a website, and then what?
Kevin Crowe: Then I created an eBook, I finished that last year, but it was already most of the way through football season, but I started to promote it a little bit this year, and I just made my first sale actually last week.
Shane Sams: Boom. There you go.
Jocelyn Sams: Oh yeah.
Shane Sams: You release something and it sells, especially when it’s … How much did you charge for it?
Kevin Crowe: Just a few bucks, but it was my 11 cent moment.
Shane Sams: That’s right, man.
Jocelyn Sams: We’ll take it.
Shane Sams: I made 11 cents my first sale. So, seriously, what’s a few bucks, like $4.99, $3.99? What’d you charge for it?
Kevin Crowe: $2.99.
Jocelyn Sams: All right.
Shane Sams: That is like 30 times more money than we made on our first sale, Kevin. You got to take this into perspective, brother. You know what I’m saying? But that is awesome. I mean, that just shows that there is an interest for something like that out there, right?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah, validation.
Shane Sams: That’s validation.
Jocelyn Sams: Okay, so you have your site, you have the book, you’ve made a sale, which is amazing. So, what is next? Where do we go next?
Shane Sams: What’s holding you back right now? Fears, obstacles? You’ve got this eBook sale, why aren’t you just flooding promotion on this eBook, or where are you … What’s next for your fantasy football blog?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah, I thought the next step would be to create an online course. So, I actually finished that a couple of days ago, and now I’m just trying to figure out, do I just want to sell that as a one off course, or do I want to turn it into a membership where I can get some recurring revenue? I’m just kind of unsure on how to proceed, because the window is kind of small, because football is season, right-
Shane Sams: Right.
Kevin Crowe: … So, I want to get my course out there now, but I don’t know how many people are going to be buying it once football season’s actually underway, halfway through, or whatever.
Shane Sams: So, basically we’ve just got to figure out how to position this to make the most money, or make the most money over time basically.
Kevin Crowe: Right.
Shane Sams: So, this was … you’re just … What’s your eBook about? It’s like how to draft, or what is it?
Kevin Crowe: It’s basically the ultimate guide to fantasy football, so it’s taking somebody who’s never played, and teaching them the ropes basically from preseason drafting, through the draft, what to do afterward, and what to do if you make the playoffs. Just kind of a strategy guide.
Shane Sams: Sure. I’m almost thinking that that … If I’m thinking about the way that your product works, what’s the most valuable thing to a fantasy football player? Well, the first thing, for me, is the draft, because that happens first. You’ve got to get your draft … You’ve got to go into the draft knowing what’s going on, and really you need a draft guide. You need something that’s going to help you make picks in the moment. I always had this big printout, and I was highlighting people off as they went, but it was like a pick order almost. So, my quarterbacks would be ranked, and as people took quarterbacks I’d highlight them, right?
Kevin Crowe: Yep.
Shane Sams: And then it’s running backs, whatever, like a pick guide. So, that way it took the guesswork out of it for someone who shows up at their fantasy football draft and doesn’t have enough time to really research it, you know what I’m saying?
Kevin Crowe: Yep.
Shane Sams: But, I think the money, dude, is in the weekly picks, because every week you’ve got a depth chart, and you’ve got a roster, and you’ve got to pick the starters. So, you might have three quarterbacks. Well, maybe one quarterback, depending on how your draft works, you might have one quarterback that is against a really weak defense, even though he’s not your best quarterback, and you might choose to start him that week. But, choices like that seem to be where some recurring revenue, or some bigger money would be in. I’m just wondering if you couldn’t give them the strategy guide as an opt-in, but then sell them something where you send out a thing like that this week. Just like they would do on ESPN Insider, or anywhere else, where you actually tell them the pick order. What do people at the water cooler ask you to do?
Jocelyn Sams: So, I think what might be interesting … How long is the book?
Kevin Crowe: The book is like … it’s 50 tips…so, it’s about 25 to 30 pages.
Jocelyn Sams: All right.
Shane Sams: Yeah, that’s something someone could read right before the draft-
Jocelyn Sams: I wonder-
Shane Sams: … if they’ve never done it before.
Jocelyn Sams: … I think that’s a little bit large for a free thing, though.
Kevin Crowe: I have a top 10 tips eBook-
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, I wonder if you-
Kevin Crowe: … for a lead magnet.
Jocelyn Sams: … bring it up. Exactly, yeah.
Shane Sams: So, could you give away the top 10 tips, and then take the big book and put it inside of a product … We’ll call it a product for right now, okay?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah.
Shane Sams: Then maybe what you would do is you would say, “Hey, it’s a $100, or $99 season pass.” So, they pay $99, they get access to your thing for the entire season, inside is your … You just got the 10 tips for free, but inside is the strategy guide you need before you start the season to get this right, and then you say, “Hey, also, on whatever date, I’m going to release my pick orders where you can go to your draft, and you can get in there, and make sure you draft the best possible team, and then every single week I’m going to email you my start em, sit them charts where you’re going to help them decide who …”, it’s basically just a newsletter is what it is at that point, but it’s something that you’re doing anyway, because you’re playing fantasy football, right?
Kevin Crowe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Shane Sams: … So you’re researching all this stuff anyway, and then they kind of get a little monthly email. So, say you get like 100 people to pay $99, you got basically $10,000, and then all you’re going to do is each week you send out your newsletter on email. So, it is in real time, and it is live, so there is going to be work to do. This is a hard passive product, you know what I mean?
Kevin Crowe: Right. Oh yeah.
Jocelyn Sams: But it’s something that you’re doing anyway, and I think that eventually if you were to want to make it more passive you might bring someone else in, so-
Shane Sams: To help you do stuff, to research and stuff like that.
Jocelyn Sams: … Yeah, somebody else to spread out the work a little bit.
Shane Sams: Yeah, but I mean, I don’t think it’s going to be that much work, because you’re going to be … One, you’re doing it anyway, and you’re just going to write a little report up that says … You might have each position in the newsletter, and your top picks this week to start, just five for each position and why, you know what I’m saying?
Jocelyn Sams: I mean, this is going to be kind of short too, I mean, at most one page front and back.
Shane Sams: Yeah, it’s just … You don’t even have to put pictures and stuff, it’s just bulleted lists, like, “Here’s my top quarterbacks of the week, start them, sit them. Here’s my top running backs of the week start them, sit them.” Maybe a little information on your top pick, and just to help people to decide what they’re doing, but that gives you a bigger ticket, because it’s like NFL fantasy season pass with Kevin, like, “I’m an expert, I know this, I’m going to make sure you win your fantasy draft, I’m going to make you be able to rub it into your friends in the forums.”
Shane Sams: You know what I’m saying, like talking trash to them, and you’re just going to give them the information that they need. I think it’s going to be hard to sell just the strategy guide, or even a pick order by itself, because those exist, but if I was doing fantasy football, and I’m like, “Man, I’ve got a guy, I’ve got a ringer. I’ve got a guy that tells me every week what to do, and his name’s Kevin.”, I’m going to be much more likely to pay for something like … Does that make sense?
Kevin Crowe: Yep, totally.
Jocelyn Sams: I think that possibly, it might be a good idea, you could go live each week and answer questions, or talk through the newsletter that you put out.
Shane Sams: Yeah, if you want to do that, that’d be … Yeah, send the newsletter, and then you have a follow up video for like an hour, where people could actually-
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, and you don’t even have to prepare anything, just go through the guide, explain more about your picks in depth, why you decided this, and then answer questions. So, people might be sitting at their computer, “Okay, should I start person A, or person B?” “Oh, well, I think you should start person B, because ABC.”, you know?
Shane Sams: Yeah, that could be really-
Kevin Crowe: You’re inside my head right now, Jocelyn.
Shane Sams: She’s an introvert.
Jocelyn Sams: Introvert connection.
Kevin Crowe: Yeah, so I’ve looked at starting a membership, that’s one thing I’ve been thinking about, and you talked about the Q&A, and that was something I was thinking about that could help me get recurring revenue if I’m doing a live Q&A Sunday morning before the games start where people have those questions of, “Who should I start?”, and I’m there to answer the questions for them.
Shane Sams: Yes, that would be amazing, because you can’t go to … You can watch the start them … They have fantasy football shows on ESPN, but you can’t ask about your team, and they don’t always cover your players. So, to have an expert do that, you know what I’m saying, who’s been playing for almost 20 years, and someone’s just starting out, or they’re really into it, they’re going to be all over something like that. So, maybe they get the email on Friday, because it’s like then you got the weekend to think about it, and there might be a Saturday game when college football’s over, something, you know what I mean, and then on Sunday you go live to talk about it, so they’ve got time to process what’s in the newsletter, but that would be fine.
Shane Sams: Think about it like, I mean, who knows how big something like that could get. 99 bucks season pass, get the strategy guide, get your draft pick orders. I’m going to have a special draft live where we can ask questions, whatever, and then … You could even … you know what would be amazing, is if you had something set up where they could email, and you would get an email on your phone and they’re in their draft, and you can send them a pick. That would be amazing. That might be too much. But, 99 bucks, you go get 500 people over the next couple years doing this, you got … that’s $50,000 in a season, you know?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah.
Shane Sams: I mean, you can … and that’s not unreasonable, because there’s millions of people that play fantasy football, right?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah.
Shane Sams: So, what about outside of the season though, is there anything outside of the season that fantasy football people care about, or do they usually just move to another sport at that point like baseball, or golf, or basketball, or something?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah, it’s typically just after the Super Bowl people don’t really think about fantasy football again until … I mean, when the NFL draft happens there are some questions about rookies, and what teams they go to, and how that might impact, but people generally don’t start worrying about fantasy football until July or August when they’re getting ready to do their next draft.
Jocelyn Sams: Okay, so how much interest/expertise do you have in other sports?
Shane Sams: Like other fantasy sports.
Kevin Crowe: Not much. I’ve played fantasy baseball a couple times, but it’s not something that I do regularly. It’s mainly just football for me.
Shane Sams: Well, that’s where you could outsource. That’s where you probably … So, let’s say if you build up a fantasy base over so many years of a couple hundred people, because they’re going to come back year after year, this is a perfect regenerating product, it’s like … We always say that … My U.S. history teacher site is like this, because every year a new crop of social studies teachers graduate college, and a bunch of teachers retire, and teachers change jobs. So, it’s regenerating the customer base all the time, and this is the same thing. If you get 100 people, and you help them do good in their fantasy league, they’re going to come back to you next year, you’re going to re-market to them, right?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah.
Shane Sams: But maybe you could get someone like a partner who’s doing really good in baseball, or maybe you know somebody that’s like a pro at fantasy baseball, they could do that for you, and you could just be the gears behind the machine.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, and I wouldn’t bring in a partner, I would probably just hire somebody, but-
Shane Sams: Hire it out, yeah, you’re in control.
Jocelyn Sams: … I know that the thought is, “Okay, well if this person knows so much about it, they’d start their own website.” Well, here’s the thing, most people don’t know how to start a website, or how to do online marketing, but you do.
Shane Sams: You said earlier you listen to almost … Have you listened to every Flipped Lifestyle podcast, or almost every Flipped Lifestyle podcast?
Kevin Crowe: I think I’ve listened to them all, honestly.
Shane Sams: Okay, so you’ve listened … Those people haven’t, you know what I mean, and you still just got your product out recently and made your first sale, you know what I mean? So, it’s not like they’re just going to run out and do this. You may not even have to. Like I said, you go out and get 300 to 500 people, that’s a modest amount of people over the next couple of years to build up as a customer base, and all of a sudden you’re making 40, 50 grand a year just off this, and you’re working at home anyway. So, it might not even be necessary to go into the other sports. You could just spend the money off season.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, so I would just start with the fantasy football, and if it gets to a point where you’re ready to expand a little bit, I would maybe just choose one more. If it’s something that you yourself would be willing to learn, and invest time into becoming an expert at it, then that would be amazing, but if not, you can always go with somebody else.
Shane Sams: What is your ultimate goal with this business? Is it a side income, especially now that you’re working at home, or is it maybe to make enough money to stay home and just do this only?
Kevin Crowe: Well, for a while it was to do it full-time, just because I wanted that to be what I did all the time, but now that I have this job where I work at home and I love this job, it’s more of like a side income, I just want to be able to make enough on the side to take vacations, and do other things like that.
Shane Sams: For sure, and that is a worthy goal, and I want to stress that, because a lot of people get obsessed with the quit your job, do this, but gosh, what if you could play fantasy football and make enough money to pay your mortgage and your car and go on a vacation every year? That would be pretty-
Jocelyn Sams: Not the worst life ever.
Kevin Crowe: No.
Shane Sams: Yeah, that sounds amazing, and especially if you’re already working at home. So, this has a lot of potential, dude, there’s a huge audience for it, huge niche. I mean, you’ve sold one of them. I think if you just put it together, and do something, it’s like a hybrid. It’s not really a membership, but it’s a seasonal product, right?
Kevin Crowe: Yep.
Shane Sams: We’ve got some friend, they sell Halloween t-shirts. So, every year they fire up the printing press, and they make hundred of Halloween t-shirts. It’s a seasonal income, it gives them that extra money that they need, and this could be something that could turn into something great for you like that too.
Kevin Crowe: Awesome.
Jocelyn Sams: All right, Kevin, it has been a fun conversation about your business. We are so excited that you made a sale, that is so awesome, and I can’t wait to see what you do next, and more importantly, we can’t wait to see you again in September. But before we go, we always ask everyone, what is one thing that you plan to take action on based on what we talked about on the podcast today?
Kevin Crowe: I am definitely going to look into getting the membership set up, and get that structured, what it’s going to look like, and get ready to launch that to my audience that I got.
Shane Sams: When do people start drafting? We’re in mid July right now, it’s pretty soon, right?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah, typically August. Some people do early August, but mostly mid to late August.
Shane Sams: Awesome. Well, just don’t over complicate it. It’s basically, “I’m going to email you, and I’m going to be in a private Facebook group on Facebook Live.” So, if you can just do those two things and get that set up, you’re going to be able to launch this way before August 1st. Okay?
Kevin Crowe: Cool.
Jocelyn Sams: As a fellow introvert I’m going to say this, because I know it’s happening, stop thinking so much.
Shane Sams: That’s right, just go do it, dude.
Kevin Crowe: You’ve got me pegged.
Shane Sams: All right guys, that was another great conversation with a Flip Your Life community member. We would love to help you inside of the Flip Your Life community just like we helped Kevin today. All you have to do to join the community is go to flippedlifestyle.com/flipyourlife. We have all the training you need to come up with your idea, research your market, create your product, and launch it in your own online business. That’s flippedlifestyle.com/flipyourlife.
Shane Sams: We would love to see you and hang out with you and meet you at Flip Your Life Live. We’re going to be hanging out with Kevin, you can come meet him too, it’s happening in Lexington, Kentucky on September 19th through the 21st. You can find out all the information that you need about Flip Your Life Live at flippedlifestyle.com/live. There are only a few tickets left. Once they sell out, they are gone forever. We have decided that we are not doing a Flip Your Life Live conference in 2020. So, stop putting it off, stop waiting for it. This is your time. If you want one of the last few tickets remaining for Flip Your Life Live, go to flippedlifestyle.com/live and get yours before they sell out.
Shane Sams: Before we go, we always love to close our podcast with a bible verse. Jocelyn, and I get a lot of information and inspiration from the bible, and we want to share some of that with you. Today’s bible verse is 1 John 3:18, and it says, “Let us not love in word or talk, but in deed and in truth.” What that bible verse is saying guys, is stop talking, get out there and take action. It’s not about the words. It’s not about the talk. You are judged by your deeds and what you are doing in the real world, so get out there and take action if you really want to make it happen in your life. That’s all the time we have for today’s show. Thank you so much for listening, and until next time, get out there, take action, do whatever it takes to flip your life. See you then.
Jocelyn Sams: Bye.
Shane Sams: For some reason I kept wanting to laugh, I don’t know. I was about to laugh.
Jocelyn Sams: You were all like-
Shane Sams: I know I was like dancing around in my chair, I don’t know what I was doing right there.
Jocelyn Sams: I don’t know what was going on right there, but-
Shane Sams: I don’t know what was happening right there, man, it was kind of weird. I’m just antsy, antsy. I’m ready to take action-
Kevin Crowe: Well, I have been trying to figure out a way out of the dog house for that just the girlfriend comment.
Jocelyn Sams: Oh, yes.
Shane Sams: Yeah, you’re done. You’re done-
Jocelyn Sams: Maybe we can edit that out.
Shane Sams: No, we’re not editing it out, Jocelyn. It’s all going in. This banter is going to be the B-roll it goes with it, I’m telling you right now.
Jocelyn Sams: Okay, so I had an idea for you, I didn’t really want to get into it on that, because I was afraid it would be too long, but so I think maybe one thing that you might could do is either write a blog post, or … I’m trying to think. So, most people, a lot of people do a party, right? Like a draft party?
Kevin Crowe: Yes.
Jocelyn Sams: So, my guess is that people are googling draft party ideas, or something like that. I would do some keyword research on that, but I think you should write something about that, maybe have something that people could print out-
Shane Sams: How to host a fantasy draft or something?
Jocelyn Sams: Yes, and so-
Kevin Crowe: Oh, that’s kind of cool.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, so you could have your branding information on … Do people have something that they write on? How does it work? I don’t know, I’ve never done this.
Shane Sams: It’s usually on computer, or on paper.
Kevin Crowe: Yeah, most of the time it’s on computers, sometimes people have those big draft boards where you peel off the players name and stick it up on the board where-
Shane Sams: People get elaborate, it’s crazy.
Kevin Crowe: Yeah.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, I wonder if you could … If he can get something that would be in peoples homes, that would be in front of a lot of people who were drafting, you see what I’m saying?
Shane Sams: Oh, like a … or even like a draft printout that said the website, like basically everyone that prints that is giving it to 10 of their friends, so it’s going viral almost.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, but I would like to see you come up with a blog post that has some ideas for food to have at a party, some ideas for décor, you might could even do some Amazon affiliates.
Shane Sams: Well, what you … No, what you really want them to hand out is the top three picks for every position, because that’s what people are going to hand out.
Jocelyn Sams: Well, that’s fine, but I’m saying to get traffic.
Shane Sams: I am.
Kevin Crowe: Yeah, I was actually going to ask you guys about affiliates, because to me that makes a little bit of sense on my blog to-
Shane Sams: Does DraftKings have an affiliate program?
Kevin Crowe: Yep.
Shane Sams: Bro, yes, DraftKings-
Kevin Crowe: Yeah, that’s been on my radar. The DraftKings, or even Fanatics for sports apparel.
Shane Sams: Yeah man, if you do what Jocelyn said, like have some posts that are about hosting the draft, but then maybe you have an opt-in that is like, “Download for your draft D’s, the top three pics at every position.”, and then they could hand it out to everybody.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, and it would have your information on it-
Shane Sams: And it would have your information-
Jocelyn Sams: … and then you could have-
Shane Sams: … Get weekly draft support at-
Jocelyn Sams: Yes. Yes.
Kevin Crowe: Oh, that’s cool.
Shane Sams: People are going to … you want … The draft host has to find the blog post, then he prints the free thing to give to all of his people playing-
Jocelyn Sams: Yes, exactly.
Shane Sams: … and now you have 12 people in your hands that say, “Hey, get weekly draft support.”, and all you do is put the top three picks at each position.
Jocelyn Sams: Now we’re on the same page.
Shane Sams: Right, so it’s basically you want the host to find the post, and then you want the opt-in that … Give your people all this thing, and then maybe when they go to that website … I would do the affiliate thing, the host thing, maybe you could … Oh, here’s another post you could do. Do a comparison between multiple fantasy football platforms. Like DraftKings versus-
Jocelyn Sams: Versus.
Shane Sams: … CBS Sports Live, and then you pick draft teams, and click here to get a 10% discount on your affiliate.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, I’m going to tell you right now, Kevin, this is a very keyword heavy thing.
Shane Sams: Oh yeah, for sure.
Jocelyn Sams: You need to concentrate on Google a lot, because people are going to be typing in, “how to win at fantasy football. DraftKings versus whatever.”
Shane Sams: Have you done the research on that?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, so if I were you, I don’t know-
Shane Sams: I do like the idea of targeting the draft people though, the guy or girl that’s hosting the draft.
Kevin Crowe: Yeah, that’s something I definitely have not thought of. That’s pretty cool.
Jocelyn Sams: Okay, hold on. I don’t even remember what I was saying, because you interrupted me, which was rude.
Shane Sams: Sorry.
Jocelyn Sams: Sorry. I had something good.
Shane Sams: [crosstalk 00:38:01]-
Jocelyn Sams: Oh, yes. So, what I think you should do if you haven’t done it already, I would invest in some SEO training. I bought a course on Udemy not too long ago, and it was like the top course. I actually haven’t done it yet, but it was like $10.
Shane Sams: Just to get a little deeper into the ad platforms that you want to run ads-
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, I would really … I would invest a lot of time-
Shane Sams: But you said you’ve already done the keyword research, right?
Kevin Crowe: I’ve done a pretty good bit, yeah.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, but I would invest some time and energy in making sure that your posts come to the top.
Shane Sams: Like getting the posts themselves doctored up, and clean.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, because Google’s going to be huge for you. I might even put somebody behind ads.
Shane Sams: Fantasy is competitive though. Do you have an email list?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah, I do. It’s got about 550 on it.
Shane Sams: Oh yeah, there’s some people in there. Hey, you should send an email out that says, “Hey, just doing a quick survey, who is hosting a draft?”, and ask your 550 people who is actually going to host their teams draft, and then send them the free thing that they can give out, like print it, and just say, “Hey …”, so let’s say that 10 people write you back. Send those 10 people a free cheat sheet front and back top three people at every pick with basically a sales copy at the bottom of the back page, so that everyone in their room gets a “Need help making your picks every week? Go to thefantasyfootballcoach.com.”, and get you some traffic that way too.
Jocelyn Sams: But ask your people, be like, “Hey, if you’re hosting a draft party, what information do you need-”
Shane Sams: What do you need? Yeah-
Jocelyn Sams: What would be helpful for you to have?”, like ask-
Shane Sams: “What would you want to give your players, and I’ll …”, say, “What would you want to give out to your players, and I’ll make it for you.”, and volunteer yourself to do that, and they’ll basically … Anyone who writes you back, is automatically going to give that thing to their people.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, and so they’re going to get there to their draft party, and they’re going to be like, “Man, this is sweet.”, and it’s going to make-
Shane Sams: Because that’ll raise their status in the room.
Jocelyn Sams: … Yes, it’s going to make the person look good.
Shane Sams: Yeah, what can I do to make you look good for your players, right?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah, that’s cool, because a lot of the ones that I’ve gone to, the in person drafts like that, people have the top however many players printed out, and just given it out to everybody who walks in.
Shane Sams: But it would be nice if the back half of that paper … Actually, if you can get it all on the front, and then the back was literally a sales page, was a sales letter about your course. Everyone in the room might-
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, but these people are going to be printing it themselves, though, they won’t print the back.
Shane Sams: They might print two pages and staple it.
Jocelyn Sams: No.
Shane Sams: Yeah, you want the-
Kevin Crowe: I could at least just have the website and stuff at the bottom-
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah.
Shane Sams: Well, I would cut the page in half, the top of the page I would have the top three picks at every of position, which will fit, just put little squares, you know what I’m saying?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah.
Shane Sams: And then the bottom is basically a little short sales letter for your product, which is, “I will help you …”, you could put on it, “Do you want to beat every player in this room right now, dot, dot, dot.”, and then you have a little paragraph that says, “Hi, I’m Kevin, I’ve been playing fantasy football for over 20 years, I’m going to help you pick the best starters every single week, and keep you up to date on everything that’s happening in fantasy football. All you have to do is go to thefantasyfootballcoach.com, and you can sign up today.”
Jocelyn Sams: How many times have you won your draft, do you know?
Kevin Crowe: Several. I was in six leagues last year and won four of them, and made about 1,000 bucks.
Shane Sams: Okay, that’s what you need to say.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, that needs to be on your sales information.
Kevin Crowe: It’s on the-
Shane Sams: “Last year alone I won four of my six leagues and over 1,000 bucks. Wouldn’t you trade $99 for $1,000?”
Jocelyn Sams: This reminds me … Do you remember when J.T. was doing the-
Shane Sams: PA announcers?
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah … No, he was doing the radio show. So, Shane had been a coach in high school for years-
Shane Sams: Oh yeah, I was like the expert. I was the color guy on the radio show, because I knew about football.
Jocelyn Sams: Well, and one of his friends was doing this show, and he was like, “Hey, who’s going to win this game?” So, Shane picked all … He told them who to pick every week, and I think you got like 90 something percent.
Shane Sams: Yeah, basically it was a high school football pick em show, and he would call me every week with every high school game in the tri-county area where we live. So, there’s like 10 schools in the area, and I was 90% for the season.
Kevin Crowe: Wow.
Shane Sams: But yeah, every week I just was like, “They’re going to win. They’re going to win. They’re going to win.”
Jocelyn Sams: One time you weren’t here or something, or I don’t know, he couldn’t get a hold of you or something, he’s like, “I need to get him. I don’t know who to pick.”
Shane Sams: Yeah. Right, exactly. I was pretty awesome. So, this is good stuff. I think you got a lot of potential here. I think this year we’re running up to it a little quick, but if you can make a few sales and get your logistics done, it could really blow up next year, because you’d have a whole year to market it, you know what I’m saying?
Kevin Crowe: Right.
Jocelyn Sams: No, blow it up this year. What are we waiting for?
Shane Sams: Well now, you can blow it up this year too, I’m just saying you can’t get a bunch of people, if you’ve got 500 people on your list there’s probably 40 to 50 that would definitely want this, you just got to get them to buy it.
Jocelyn Sams: But just think about what your people are thinking about right now. They’re probably thinking about their party, and they’re probably thinking about-
Shane Sams: The draft.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah.
Shane Sams: And then … Yeah, they’re not worried about the games yet, they’re just worried about the … and they’re probably in multiple drafts.
Jocelyn Sams: So, that’s the content that you need to focus on right now.
Kevin Crowe: So, what do you think about charging monthly, because-
Shane Sams: I would not charge monthly on this, I would make a season pass, and charge $99.
Kevin Crowe: Okay, because I was just thinking for people who might not join until October, or something. If they’re just wanting to get into for-
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, it’s still the season pass.
Shane Sams: Season pass, man. That’s why I think giving away as much draft information as possible for free is amazing opt-in stuff. One, because you can find a lot of that stuff for free anyway, and I don’t think the value is in the draft. I think the leads are in the draft. The value is, “Oh crap, it’s Sunday, who do I start?”, you know what I’m saying? “What defense do I run if I’ve got two defenses? Who has the better matchup?”, and I’m clueless
Shane Sams: The drafts can be put on autopilot a little bit, because if you have a really good draft sheet you’re going to know who to pick next, because you’re going to go, “Okay, well the top quarterback’s gone, the top running back’s gone, top, top, top.”, and then you’re looking at it, and you’re like, “Well, of the receiver and running back, these are the two highest scores. I’ll just pick the highest score.”, right?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah.
Shane Sams: So, those can kind of be … That’s free and automated basically. You can go buy a magazine at book whatever, but what’s not automated and what’s not good is I need someone to ask. I need someone that I can hit reply and email and say, “Kevin, who should I pick?” That is not easily done. So, that’s where it really … You can read articles and all this stuff, but you still have to make the call, and most people need validation more than anything else. So, they need someone there to validate them, and they will pay for that, right?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah.
Jocelyn Sams: On the pricing, if you’re in October, you could always discount it.
Shane Sams: Yeah, I would just charge $99 for a season pass no matter what, unless you did like a playoff bundle, because you know how people redraft for the playoffs?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah.
Shane Sams: You could totally do a playoff pack of like 25 bucks, playoff special, where they get the whole playoffs for 25 bucks, or something like that if they redraft, but 99 bucks is worth it, and that’s how you position it though. “Last year alone I won four out of my six drafts, and I made over $1,000. What if you could win your draft? How much money would you make? Isn’t that … I bet it’s more than $99. This is totally worth it.”, you know what I’m saying?
Kevin Crowe: Yeah.
Shane Sams: “And then imagine the bragging rights every week when people are looking at you like Nostradamus, because you’re walking in and killing them, and they don’t know how you’re doing it. You’ve got your secret in the back pocket, Kevin Crowe. Not Russell Crowe, but better looking.” That’s what you say.
Kevin Crowe: The fantasy gladiator.
Shane Sams: The fantasy gladiator. Change your website, fantasygladiator.com, and then just have a picture of you standing in the middle of a football field screaming, “Are you not entertained?”, that’d be amazing. That’d be awesome.
Links and resources mentioned on today’s show:
- Flip Your Life LIVE 2019 Tickets & Registration Information
- Flip Your Life community
- PROLIFIC Monthly
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