In today’s episode, Jocelyn and I reflect on the past, talk about our fears and struggles, and discuss plans for the future!
Jocelyn Sams: Hey y’all. You’re listening to episode 300 of the Flipped Lifestyle podcast.
Shane Sams: Welcome to the Flipped Lifestyle podcast, where life always comes before work. We’re your hosts Shane and Jocelyn Sams. We’re a real family that figured out how to make our entire living online. And now we help other families do the same. Are you ready to flip your life? All right, let’s get started.
Shane Sams: What is going on everybody? Welcome back to the Flipped Lifestyle podcast. Super excited to be with you this week for episode 300 of the Flipped Lifestyle podcast. It’s just me and Jocelyn today for episode 300. And if you’re wondering what we’re going to talk about on today’s podcast, on this milestone episode of the Flipped Lifestyle podcast, episode 300. If you’re wondering that, good, because so are we. We have no plan, we’re going into this … We tried to come up with some stuff and we just couldn’t think of anything or figure it out.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah. We had all kinds of ideas of things that we wanted to do. We’ve been talking about it forever. And a couple days ago our assistant emails us and she’s like, “Hey guys, just wondering if you have anything for episode 300?” When in the back of her mind I know she’s thinking, this episode is supposed to come out next week, get this done.
Shane Sams: We’re batched ahead on all of our interviews before and after, but you guys have not recorded episode 300. And we started talking about it a little bit and we’re like, why can we not think about this? Why can we not figure it out? Maybe we should have a guest on. Maybe we shouldn’t have a guest on. Maybe we should talk about X. Maybe we should talk about Y. Maybe we should talk about Z. And we just could not come up with any topic. So what we decided to do for episode 300 is one, explore a little bit why we couldn’t figure out what we wanted to talk about. Two, talk about some of the projects and things that we’re doing right now and how that’s going to impact what Flipped Lifestyle looks like in the future. And then we’re actually going to go through the same questions. We’re going to interview each other a little bit and talk about those internal fears that are holding us back. Those external obstacles that are getting in our way. And we’re going to talk about our biggest business questions that we have for growing and scaling our business. Because we are not immune to fear, we are and not immune to the obstacles, and we are definitely not immune to all the questions that rise up. And we find ourselves right now in kind of a weird limbo in our business.
Shane Sams: We’ve got this huge live event coming up, Flip Your Life LIVE. It’s happening September 19th through the 21st. We’ve got new projects that we’ve started. We recently acquired back some ownership in another company that we owned. So we’re going to be able to grow that thing and make it more profitable now. And we’ve just got a lot going on and it’s kind of left us in this weird paralyzed place. Have you ever felt that way in your business? Have you ever felt like there were things happening and you felt busy and you felt like things were going on, you had a lot of ideas, but you were just kind of stuck or plateaued? And that’s kind of where we feel right now emotionally, mentally, and everything about our business.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah we thought we would just give you a little bit of insight into what we’re thinking, what we’re working on, because we really haven’t done that I guess in a while. And I was just thinking today that in August this is going to be five years of this podcast, which is kind of crazy.
Shane Sams: Unbelievable.
Jocelyn Sams: So we’ve come kind of a long way but of course there’s a lot of things that we still want to do and a lot of places we still want to go. So we’re just going to kind of explore that a little bit and just give you guys a little bit of an insight into what we’re thinking.
Shane Sams: All right, so the first thing we want to talk about is Flip Your Life LIVE. And yes, we want you to come to Flip Your Life LIVE. It’s in the teens, however many tickets are left right now. I’m not exactly sure what the count is. We’ve not met with our live event coordinator in a couple weeks. But we’ve only got a few tickets left and we really want you to come to Flip Your Life LIVE. It’s September 19th through the 21st, it’s in Lexington, Kentucky, and it’s going to be an amazing event where 100 entrepreneurs from all over the world are going to come together and work for a couple days to build and grow our businesses. We’ve mentioned this on the podcast a couple times, but we want to explore it a little bit. We are not doing Flip Your Life LIVE in the big conference style event that we’ve done for the past couple of years anymore. There will not be a Flip Your Life LIVE in 2020 or 21.
Jocelyn Sams: And we’ve had a couple questions about this. I’ve had a couple of personal friends message me and they’re like, “Is everything okay? Why aren’t you having an event?” And yes, everything is fine. It has nothing to do with any type of crisis or anything like that. It’s just that this event, it just takes a lot of work and a lot of bandwidth that’s taking away from other things that we do.
Shane Sams: As we explored … Our first initial idea for Flip Your Life LIVE was let’s create a family reunion for the Flip Your Life Community, for our Flipped Lifestyle podcast audience. Let’s create an event, a place where people can go and they don’t have to worry about constantly getting pitched every hour on the hour. They don’t have to worry about hearing a bunch of speakers talk about the crust of whatever they do and then sell them the rest of it. Let’s create an event where people come and learn real deep content. Let’s create an event where people have time to work on that content together and individually at the event. And then let’s create it where it’s a Q&A with S and J every hour on the hour. You can ask questions about everything that we talk about. And we wanted to make it a catalyst for people on their calendar where they’re like, “I’ve got to get stuff done before Flip Your Life LIVE. And when I leave Flip Your Live LIVE, I’m going to be super hyper crazy excited and make massive strides to make progress in my business.” And we did that.
Shane Sams: Last year’s event was incredible. This year’s event has been awesome. We’ve done live trainings every week for our attendees. And everything is just really coming to a head. But, Flip Your Life LIVE had an unexpected consequence or two. One, it sucked up all of our bandwidth. I mean from January 1st until September 19th. Every day, almost always, every morning we get up and we look at each other and we’re thinking about Flip Your Life LIVE. We’re planning meals with our person, we’re planning content, we’re talking to people in the Flip Your Life LIVE Facebook group. We’re just constantly thinking about the marketing and the sales and how to get people to come to Flip Your Life LIVE and we just did not expect it to take up so much bandwidth. Even the stuff we’ve outsourced. Like our live event coordinator handles all the meals and planning what people are going to eat and all the logistics in the hotel, but you’re still thinking about it. You just can’t put it up because it’s such a big deal and it’s such a big event. And people are coming and you want to put on such a good show that it actually pulled us out of the Flip Your Life Community. It pulled us away from our Q&A’s. It pulled us away from our Flip Your Life Community forums a little bit. And it actually impacted the reach that we could have.
Shane Sams: It even pulled us away a little bit from podcasting. We used to be 12, 13 weeks ahead on our podcasts, and now we’re only staying about three or four weeks ahead, because instead of a podcast, we have to record a meeting about Flip Your Life LIVE or we have to talk to each other about something that’s going on with the event instead of going on other people’s podcasts. We used to do interviews all the time. We’ve done dozens and dozens of interviews in magazines and on other people’s podcasts and those were really good to spread our message and get our word out there, but we’ve not been able to do that for two years because we don’t have time to do that.
Shane Sams: So Flip Your Life LIVE was an amazing event and it is going to be an amazing event this year. And we kind of looked at ourselves last year when we were getting ready to walk on stage and said, “Did we really do this? Did this really happen? Did we really pull this off?” Like how did a couple people from Kentucky who started a podcast four or five years ago get 100 people to fly in from the world to change their family’s future? And it was awesome. But it’s just really kind of holding back our business right now and other things that we want to do. So we decided hey, let’s blow this one out. Let’s make this one bigger, double what it was last year, awesome. And then we’re going to go in another direction.
Jocelyn Sams: So for me, the event is amazing. I mean it was my idea to begin with. I had gone to another event that was sort of similar to this and I thought it was really cool. And I thought wow, it would be awesome to bring our people together. But what I really didn’t anticipate was, first of all, the massive expense that it takes to put on a live event. There are of course benefits to doing that and there are drawbacks to that. I’ve mentioned it before that we pretty much make zero profit on the event, which means that we do all this work and we don’t make any money. And of course it’s not all about the money, but it’s hard to put so much time and effort into something that you’re getting no financial return on. Now are we getting other types of return? Yes. There have been people who have done really amazing things leading up to the event, following the event. I’m not saying that it wasn’t worth it, but it’s just been really difficult for us trying to sell this thing, trying to coordinate everything, and just keeping those wheels in motion all the time.
Shane Sams: Yeah, and we are a profit first company. Jocelyn and I don’t do anything unless it is going to be profitable. And when you hear the work profit, it’s not just like oh, we made more than we spent. That’s not what profit is. You have to also take into account opportunity costs. Like every time I’m doing a Flip Your Life LIVE training, which I love to do, that’s my energy, I love it every week. It gets me hyped. Jocelyn doesn’t come around me for three or four hours because I’m like a nuclear bomb generating heat after I get off the mic talking to our Flip Your Life LIVE attendees. But that could be a webinar where we could put another 100 people in the Flip Your Life Community. That could be a coaching call where I can help one of our Flip Your Life Community members go to the next level one on one. So there’s a lot of other things that we think we could do with our time that would make a bigger impact on more people and it would actually make more money and put more money in our pocket which is what business is all about.
Jocelyn Sams: Does that mean that we are never doing a live event again? Not necessarily. We will probably not do the large scale one for quite some time, maybe ever. We don’t like to make promises or bold statements like we will never ever do this event again.
Shane Sams: Never say never. But for right now, it is definitely not on our mind. It is not in our plans for next year, the year after, or on the horizon. And we’ve started thinking about some other things that we could do. Jocelyn and I used to go around the country. We’ve been to Chicago, San Diego, Tampa, and we’ve had small mastermind style live events where we have maybe 15 to 20 people in a room and we just really get into the weeds with them about their business. Those were really, really successful. Much more profitable than the big live event. And we got a lot of great results out of them too.
Jocelyn Sams: Another thing that we have considered and that I’m actually really excited about, is a destination style event. So what I mean by that is maybe we would go to an all inclusive resort where there will be childcare and everybody can just hang out together and we would do it more like a vacation and also a mastermind event. So one of the things that I wanted to do with our podcast listeners is I would like for you guys to fill out a little survey. So if you’re a listener and you would like to share your thoughts on what we’re doing or what we might be doing, we put together a little survey over at flippedlifestyle.com/survey. And we would love for you to answer a few questions and just tell us some feedback about some of the things that we talk about. Are you interested in a smaller type mastermind event? Are you interested in a destination type of live event? And that would help us as we sort of make plans for the future.
Shane Sams: And the reason we came up with those two options as some kind of live event thing, because live events are one our big core beliefs. We are going to a live event, actually as we are recording this, we are getting ready to fly to San Diego in a couple days. And we are going to be appearing on stage with Pat Flynn at his first live event, FlynnCon. And we’re going to be going to that event, it’s going to be an amazing event, we can’t wait to do it. By the time you’ve heard this we’ve already done it so you can probably go to YouTube or Twitter or somewhere and you could find video of the event and what we did. But live events are really important to us. We believe in live events. We go to live events and we want to host some kind of live event. But, we started looking at some of the problems or objections or the things that made a huge conference hard for our people. And two of the biggest objections were, number one, traveling to the live event. It’s a big deal to go to a live event. That’s part of the reason why you take so much action before and after a live event, is because you’ve invested so much time and money to get there so you want to get your ROI.
Shane Sams: But getting to the event was hard for people. And so we said hey, we need to maybe go back where we can go to them. If we did two or three smaller masterminds we could probably reach as many people as our big live event and we could actually come to them. So if we come to your town it’s a lot easier to attend a mastermind or a live event than it is to go all the way across the country to a big thing. The second biggest reason was, I can’t leave my family. I can’t leave my kids. I can’t find a babysitter. I can’t find anything else. And so we said hey, a destination live event … You know if you go to an all inclusive in Mexico, they’re, one, half the price of any hotel in America. Two, they’ve got kids clubs, they’ve got childcare. If we all go on a Disney cruise or a Royal Caribbean cruise or a Carnival cruise or something, they all have kid’s clubs. They’ve got childcare. So you can get away to mastermind, you can get away and have dinner together and you can do those things.
Shane Sams: So a part of this was, yes, it was taking away from our business. But a part of it too was, hey I think we could serve our community better if we would do some kind of different live component. Still give people the destination, still give people the day on their calendar, but solve some of these problems for people that will allow them to actually attend.
Shane Sams: The next thing that we wanted to talk a little bit about was the Flip Your Life Community. That’s our community where … We setup this community … Did we setup the community right away? We had a course or something when we started out.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah. The podcast has been on since 2014 and we started the community in 2015.
Shane Sams: That’s right. We had some training and stuff and we had a couple beta groups and then we went to a life changing live event. And we met an expert named James Schramko, who talked to us about recurring revenue. A lot about recurring revenue. And he was really into the big ticket, high ticket coaching stuff. And we kind of applied what we talked to him about at that live event to our own brand and said hey, let’s create a membership for the masses. Let’s create a place where anybody can go. You know some people can’t afford to go out and pay $5,000 every six months for coaching. Let’s create a place where people can have an affordable monthly rate. They can go in and get all the training they need to start, build, and grow their own online business. We can fill up a forum and surround people with a community of family focused entrepreneurs from all over the world and we can be in there and we can actually create leadership opportunities for us. We can answer forum posts, we can do Q&A’s with our members. And that’s what we did and we started the Flip Your Life Community.
Shane Sams: It continues to grow, it continues to amaze us every single day. It’s incredible when we log in and see all the success stories. There are literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of posts in our success story forum. There’s hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of questions that have been answered over the years in the Flip Your Life Community. And we just see so much growth. We were just on a member call about two weeks ago and one of our long time members, her name’s Kathy, she was talking about how she had finally gotten some traction and she got 15 people to join her membership in one month. And the crazy thing was, it was the worst month of the year in her niche to get members. And we have been working with Kathy … Kathy came to Flip Your Life LIVE last year. She’s been a long time listener of the podcast, long time member, and really I’m just giving her a shout out right now because Kathy, when you hear this, we’re so proud of you for sticking with it. And to see her after a couple years of grinding and striving and getting that first sale, but not being able to get traction and all a sudden bam, getting those 15 members in one month and just building that foundation.
Shane Sams: Crazy stuff like that happens all the time in the community and that’s just our favorite place in the world because we are so proud of all the people that are in there taking massive action and changing their lives. And it’s really fulfilling to see hey, we do this podcast every week, you hear us help someone one on one, and then people come and join the community. It’s pretty amazing.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, I loved our last member call because we actually had more success stories than questions. That’s the first time I think that’s ever happened and it was really cool because people are actually taking action and making things happen in the community, which makes me so happy.
Shane Sams: So the Flip Your Life Community is going really, really strong. We always like to kind of do a state of the union on episode 100, 200, 300. And we just want to reaffirm our commitment to the Flip Your Life Community. Our commitment to family focused entrepreneurs. We’re not out here with massive egos and narcissism and our Ferrari’s and our Lamborghini’s. We know that this community is a bunch of people who love their families and want to have a better future for their kids. They want to get out of the grind. They want to create a side hustle. They want to do something with their life that’s more than what they’re doing now. And we love the Flip Your Life Community and it’s going to be there and going strong for a long, long time.
Shane Sams: All right, the next thing I really want to talk about before we get into our question session where Jocelyn and I are going to interview each other like we do our guests every single Tuesday, is my new project that’s called Prolific Monthly. It’s a newsletter. It’s a literal paper newsletter. It’s like a top secret document that you get in the mail. It’s 15 to 20 pages. I’ve had an idea for a hand delivered, physical product, a paper newsletter, for a couple years now and I’ve just never really got around to messing with it. One, because we’ve been so preoccupied for two years now with Flip Your Life LIVE. And once we decided not to do that it was like all of the ideas gushed out of my head that I’ve been putting on the back burner that Flip Your Life LIVE has prevented me from thinking about.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, they gushed out of your head, out of your mouth, and into my brain. I mean, it was literally like a fire hose of information just hitting me at all times, and I’m like, “Bro, I cannot process all this. You’re going to have to slow down a little bit.”
Shane Sams: Make a list dude. Make a list.
Jocelyn Sams: So one day I got an email, and you guys probably got this too, about this newsletter. Like, “How many people would be interested in this?” So before the email goes out he sends me a text and he’s like, “Hey, I’m getting ready to send an email. Don’t freak out. I’m not doing anything.” I’m like, “All right.”
Shane Sams: Because Jocelyn really doesn’t like it when I just start random projects. Because she knows I’m kind of all in. She always tells me, “When you tell me about things, it scares me because I know you’re going to go do the thing.” So it kind of created this … It was kind of like boundary system. Like okay, I have to preface every new idea with, “Okay, I’m not thinking about doing this right now, but hear me out.”
Jocelyn Sams: So all it took was about, I don’t know, a couple dozen of you guys to write him back and say, “Hey, this sounds like a great idea.” And the next thing you know … I figured this out the other day-
Shane Sams: Remember the text said, “I’m not doing this right now. This is for later. I’m just conducting a little interest survey to see if anybody in the audience would like it.”
Jocelyn Sams: So like a good wife I smile and nod. Well, the other day we were on our member call and this hit me like a ton of bricks. So the next day Shane tells me, “Hey, let’s go over to this restaurant that you really like in the next town over.” I’m like, “Okay.”
Shane Sams: She’s was like, “That’s a great idea.” It’s called Compadres and it’s this little … It’s like a home mom and pop Chipotle.
Jocelyn Sams: It’s really good.
Shane Sams: It’s really good. Like super delicious.
Jocelyn Sams: Best tacos ever.
Shane Sams: Best tacos ever. So shameless plug for Compadres.
Jocelyn Sams: So I was like, “All right, yeah, I love tacos. I’ll go.” So we head over there and it just so happens that there’s a print shop on the way to the restaurant.
Shane Sams: No, it wasn’t on the way to the restaurant. You can see my master plan was happening here guys. We went to the tacos, we ate tacos, I didn’t say anything about business, didn’t talk about anything in business at all. And I was like, “You know, we need to go to Starbucks.” So I drove around town, got me a coffee, and I went to Starbucks so that I would have to redirect back by the print shop to get back to the road back to our hometown. And I’m like, “Hey, there’s the print shop. You know what, remember that idea I had the other day about the Prolific newsletter?”
Jocelyn Sams: I’m just going to go see if they can do it.
Shane Sams: “I’m just going to go see if it’s even possible.” How long was I in there when you first started thinking uh, he’s up to something here?
Jocelyn Sams: I mean you were there at least 30 minutes. I’m like, what are you doing? Because I didn’t go in. I’m just sitting there thinking he’s just talking to this guy, whatever. The next thing you know he comes out all excited and at that point I knew that it was happening.
Shane Sams: Yeah, right. I did not sign any papers. I did not do anything. I would never actually go through with something until you actually give me your signature of approval. So I go home and I was telling Jocelyn how much it was going to cost, I was showing her the profit margins, and I was telling her my ideas on how this could really help people. Because the point of the Prolific Monthly newsletter is to help people be more prolific in promotion. Because I’m a big, huge believer that you have to be consistent, prolific, and relentless. You’ve got to consistently create content. You have to prolificly promote your content. People get that backwards. You don’t have to prolificly create content guys. You have to consistently create content. Once a week, twice a week. But then you have to prolificly promote your content every single day to get traction, to get followers, to make sales. And then you have to relentlessly sell things. You’ve got to be up front and say, “I have products. They cost money. You should buy them.”
Shane Sams: Those are my three core philosophies in business and life. Be consistent, be prolific, be relentless. So Prolific Monthly, what I wanted to do was I wanted to send people a calendar. So on the 28th of the month, before the 1st of the next month, you get, in your hands, a calendar that literally tells you what to do every day. It talks about what’s on your avatar’s mind. It talks about what’s in popular culture happening. It talks about what you should do every day. You should do this sale this week. You should do this promotion this week. You should send these emails this week. And I wanted to put this thing together and then have articles in it like this is what you should do in August of 2019. This is what you should do in September of 2019. This is how you prolificly promote your brand and grow your sales and change your life.
Shane Sams: So I was really fired up about this magazine. I came home and I was like, “Look Jocelyn, it costs this. I’ve already got it written.” I had already created some of the stuff for it. And I told her about what was going to be inside. And I convinced her to write an article. Jocelyn’s like the back page article. She’s like the closing thing. So I got her to write an article for it, and I said, “Hey, let me do this. Let’s do this.” So I talked her into it, but then we’re on the member call and someone was asking about it and I look over at Jocelyn and her mouth is open three inches, and her eyes are looking at me like oh my gosh, you tricked me. She was like, “I just figured it out. You took me for tacos to soften me up to launch this new business.”
Jocelyn Sams: Yes. That so happened. And I can’t believe it took me that long to figure it out. Usually I can figure stuff like that out quicker.
Shane Sams: Yeah. So anyway, just one more story about this. So I go and launch it. I talked her into it on a Monday. Remember, we’ve not actually created this thing. We just got quotes and everything else, and some interest from some surveys. I send out an email on Tuesday, over the next three days I get sales. So I set up a beta. My beta exceeds the actual amount that I thought I could get. And I looked over at Jocelyn, I said, “Well, I guess we better write this thing.” And I go out and on Friday and Saturday we create the newsletter. We edit it, we go through it, we put it together. Super proud of how it came out. It was absolutely incredible. I’m so pumped. And then the next Monday, one week later, I emailed the files to the printer and he sent them out.
Shane Sams: And actually, anyone listening right now, you should be getting your copy of Prolific Monthly in the mail this week. So it’s going to be absolutely awesome. And it was just a fun experience to launch a product. But the moral of that story is the second we removed something from our slate, Flip Your Life LIVE, it freed up all this bandwidth to come up with ideas that were very profitable, very helpful for our community and our audience and our listenership, and it was just an awesome thing.
Shane Sams: So if you’d like to check it out go to prolificmonthly.com. P-R-O-L-I-F-I-C M-O-N-T-H-L-Y. Prolific Monthly. You can check out the newsletter. You can sign up. We go to print again on the 20th of August and you can get your copy for September. But that’s my new project. I’m really super excited about that. And I invented it and created it in a week.
Jocelyn Sams: And one more lesson about that. If you’re going to send a physical product, make sure you get a mailing address.
Shane Sams: Oh my gosh. Here’s a mistake for you guys. I was in such a hurry to get this thing to market after the survey showed so much interest, that I went into Kajabi. If you have not checked out Kajabi, it’s an awesome platform. And I was like I’m going to try a new software tool because I want to learn a new platform. So I went into Kajabi, I set up a sales page and an order form, and I sent it out to the list to start taking beta members. And about two days in I was like man sales are great, beta’s going to sell out, this is better than I thought it could go. And I looked down and I was like, why do I only have this person’s name and email address? And I looked at the form and I forgot to get a shipping address because we’ve never needed really shipping addresses before for anything, and I did not put shipping addresses. So I had to manually go back and find all these people and put their addresses back in. And I learned the lesson that I should have probably learned over the last 20 years. Always let Jocelyn check my work. Because Jocelyn would not have let that go out without that right?
Jocelyn Sams: Absolutely not.
Shane Sams: All right, on that note, that’s kind of what’s going on with Flip Your Life LIVE. Still again, love to have you there, flippedlifestyle.com/live. And check out my newsletter Prolific Monthly if you’re having trouble advertising and promoting your brand. But we’re going to go into a little question and answer here. We’re going to take each other kind of through the things that are kind of holding us back right now. Because even though we’ve got a lot going on, even though we’re getting our bandwidth back, we still feel kind of stuck in our business. We’ve reached a weird plateau in our business. We’ve got a lot going on, we’ve got a lot of things happening. There’s a lot of good going on in our life. We see it all around us, but we feel stuck like we don’t really have a plan for the future. We don’t really know what the next level is.
Shane Sams: We’ve said this before on the podcast, but it’s really easy to see the future when you’re in that nine to five. You know you want to quit your job. You know you want to go out there and scale and make more money than you’re making now at your nine to five. You know you want to spend more time with your kids. But now we’re kind of like what happens next? What’s the next part? We’ve built this business that’s impacting hundreds of lives all over the world. What does the next level look like? And as we’ve wrestled with that this summer especially, we’ve been stuck. We’ve been totally stuck. We’ve had trouble setting goals. We’ve had trouble figuring out how to grow things. And we’ve kind of looked at each other and been in this … What would you call it? It’s almost like a … What’s it called? Like a stationary orbit. We’re just kind of circling the earth, doing our thing, but we don’t really know what’s going to happen next right?
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, it’s been a kind of unusual last couple of years, but I mean even the last little bit. We have our community, which is awesome, and we definitely have ideas of ways that we want to grow, but there have been a few things, like the live event, and some other things that we’ll get into in just a little bit. But it’s just made it more difficult for us to figure out what we’re doing. And I think part of it is because when we started our kids were super young. Our son Isaac was three and our daughter was 18 months old. Their lives obviously were a lot different at that time because they were babies and they didn’t have anything to do after school, and they didn’t go to school. And because our kids are now growing up, Isaac’s 10 and Anna’s eight, they are involved in more things, and their lives are getting more complicated, which makes our lives more complicated.
Jocelyn Sams: We’re starting to wrestle with things like how much screen time is appropriate, how much exercise do they need, all these types of things.
Shane Sams: What friends should they be hanging out with? And we’re having to manage their relationships while we manage our relationship, while we literally interact … I can’t tell you guys how many people we interact with a day through our forums, in our private coaching program, online we get emails all the time, social media posts. We probably interact with 100 to 200 people a day. And we’re still trying to sort out … We have a marriage that we have to work on and we have kids and they have problems. Isaac has had a lot of anxiety in the last year or two. He’s had a lot of things that we’ve had to wrestle with and look at that and be like, we don’t know how to deal with this. So we’ve talked to counselors. We go to counseling with Isaac and we talk about his problems, we talk about our problems, and we talk about all the things that we have in our life.
Shane Sams: So we’re dealing with all the life stuff. I don’t want you guys to ever look at our Instagram and think it’s perfect. We talk about that all the time. We actually have a joke that the more perfect someone’s Instagram is, the more likely they probably are to be getting divorced. We look at each other and we’re like, we have all these things that we have to deal with and we have to struggle with. We’re together all the time. Jocelyn and I wrestle with that. We work together, we hang out together, we have parenting together, we have our marriage. There’s so many things that are going on. Life is just really, really complicated now.
Jocelyn Sams: And if you, like us, are raising kids right now in this time, there is no owner’s manual for this time. When our parents were raising us all this technology wasn’t available.
Shane Sams: There was not internet. There was no cyber bullying.
Jocelyn Sams: And there’s really nowhere for us to go for support. We’re having to figure this out in realtime and figure out what’s appropriate, what’s not appropriate, how do we control this? There’s just so many things going on in our heads and that mental stress has been really tough for me. So let’s kind of get into that just a little bit. Let’s talk about … We always ask people on the show, what are some internal fears or obstacles that are holding you back?
Shane Sams: I think the biggest internal fear or struggle that I’m having right now is definitely comparison syndrome. They say comparison is the thief of joy. And as we’ve gotten around more successful people … I’m in a really good mastermind right now with a lot of really great guys that are doing really cool things in their businesses. As we compete for those top spots in the podcast rankings, we see other people who are our peers, who kind of came up with us, who are ahead of us and there’s a lot of competitiveness in this space, a lot of ego in this space, and I really find myself down in the dump sometimes comparing myself to other people and saying, “Our podcast is better than that. Why don’t we get more downloads and why don’t we get more shares, what are we doing wrong?” And I just really struggle a lot with comparing myself to people. Almost where it’s oppressive. I feel bad about myself because we don’t do something someone else does. Or I see someone who’s doing other things.
Shane Sams: I know deep down, logically, that person is giving up something to get more results in a certain area. Whether it’s more money in ads, whether it’s time with their family, whether it’s something else, I know there’s something. I don’t know the whole story, but comparison really is the thing I’m struggling with I think the most in our business right now. And it gets me down. I get depressed sometimes. I feel sometimes like nothing I do is good enough in our business, or all the efforts that we take should have put us at the top of the mountain and top of the rankings and the top of the search results, but it just doesn’t and that really gets me down sometimes.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, and it drives me crazy. I think it’s a man thing. I don’t know.
Shane Sams: What do you mean?
Jocelyn Sams: I don’t know. I think it’s because you’re just in a mastermind with men and I think men are just kind of naturally competitive in that way, like you just want to be the top dog or whatever. I don’t know. Because I don’t really deal with that a lot. I mean I don’t really look at a lot of competition I guess. I do a little bit. Like I’ll scroll through Instagram or whatever and I might see a few things here and there, but I try to shield myself from some of the comparison because I don’t want to go to that place. So maybe that’s part of it.
Shane Sams: A part of me likes being pushed, and then a part of me thinks about the bible and it’s like run your own race. Every runner runs the race to win it, but what race are you really running? I read a great devotional about this probably about two weeks ago that really helped, and it was talking about hey, it’s not about running someone else’s race and you should live your life cheering other people on in their race. Like when you see someone else doing something good, you should cheer them on, and then you run your race. What are your goals? What are your aspirations? Where is your finish line? That’s what you’re running to. But it’s so easy to say that out loud and it’s so easy to read that in a devotional. It’s just really hard to apply it. And I can definitely think of probably a couple days a month over the last year where that has derailed me. It’s knocked me out. And I find it happens most when something good happens.
Shane Sams: For example, last week we launched Prolific Monthly. I was on a high when we got it done. But when I emailed the files in and I looked out and I thought about what other people were doing and other people this, and I got kind of down yesterday. It was like a crash almost from the high of launching the product. And I think that was just that comparison thing creeping back in. So that’s been my biggest internal fear or struggle lately and it’s something I’m going to have to work on right now. What’s yours? What’s the biggest fear or mindset issue that’s holding you back right now?
Jocelyn Sams: Well, mine is definitely a mindset thing in general. I’ve talked about it a little bit on the podcast in past episodes, but I haven’t really delved into it too much. I want to talk a little bit about my mental health. I’ve had kind of a rough time for a couple years now, and actually it’s funny because some people have noticed this. I’ve gotten some messages about it. People just concerned, and I appreciate all of those.
Shane Sams: People from the podcast and stuff?
Jocelyn Sams: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.
Shane Sams: They could hear a difference?
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah.
Shane Sams: Yeah, we’ve talked about that.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah. And for a long time I couldn’t even listen to our podcast because I sounded just so bad. And I didn’t really realize how bad it had gotten. But I went down to Mexico this past March with some friends and some business people that I mastermind with, and we were talking one night and all of this stuff just kind of came spilling out, and I realized how bad this really was. And I’ve been doing some different things to try to improve. I’ve always had a lot of anxiety, but I just started really struggling with it and I just couldn’t even really do anything. I couldn’t do work. I couldn’t do anything. I was just paralyzed I guess. And poor Shane, he’s been shouldering so much of the burden of the business and everything else because I just couldn’t do it. I just reached a place where it was just getting, even a little bit scary.
Jocelyn Sams: The good news is I have gone somewhere and I am getting help from a professional. I have started some medication, which has helped me immensely. And I feel like I’m on the right track to getting better and getting more involved in the business, and pushing things forward. So that is definitely a good thing. So I think that, for me, has been the hardest thing. And then on top of that, this last December a lot of you guys have listened to the podcast about where we decided to take our kids out to homeschool them. And I was already not doing well, but I knew it was something that Shane really wanted so I decided to tough it out and try to do it anyway, and it was just not a good thing for me, especially at this time. I love my kids, but just having the mental health issues and bringing them home all at the same time was not great for me.
Shane Sams: Yeah. And we’re actually sending our kids back to school. We did our best. We gave it a shot. No regrets. But for right now in our life, with our business, with our community, with each other and our individual health we just said hey, let’s go back to school, let’s get the kids back where they’re going everyday, let’s get on a consistent schedule, and let’s try to sort this stuff out. And it’s funny because watching this happen over the last couple years … A lot of things changed in our life. We sold a business. That was a huge transition for us when we sold elementarylibrarian.com. I think that was one of the things where I remember you kind of turning the corner into a different space in your head.
Jocelyn Sams: Well it’s almost like a death for me. That was my baby. It was something that I had grown from the ground up. And it went to someone else. And I realized through this process that I can’t even go to the website anymore, and I’ve unfollowed everything on social media. I just can’t bear to look at it. I think that was a part of it. I think there were a lot of other things that contributed to this anxiety and even some depression along the way, but like I said, I’m on a good road now. I hope that we’re able to move forward and things just continue to look up.
Shane Sams: And it’s funny because, just always remember we fully recognize that we are very blessed. We have had good fortune. We have put ourselves in the right place at the right time, but while we were in those right places we made great contacts, we met the right people that helped us do the right things, and we are fully aware that we live a very blessed life. We’ve got a dream house and a dream property. All of our needs are met. We have a great life. But what I’ve learned, mental health can creep in guys at any time. It can come in and it can attack you, it can attack your family, and whether it’s spiritual, mental, physical, whatever it is, you can be living your best life and still inside your head be struggling.
Shane Sams: I remember the conversation I had with Jocelyn about counseling, and I said, “You got to talk to somebody. We’ve got to talk to somebody about this.” And then Jocelyn had to talk to me about, “Hey, maybe medicine will help me a little bit.” Because I’m kind of scared of medicine a little bit. That’s probably a weakness of mine is I’m not real big on taking medicine. Maybe it’s fear because I don’t understand it. But we’ve had these conversations and through counseling, through the medication, through working through this, I can see a dramatic improvement in the last two or three months. Incredible. It makes me happy because you’re happy.
Shane Sams: So don’t listen to all these entrepreneur gurus who are like, “Tough it out. Work 90 hours. Suck it up. Be an individual. Be tough.” You’ve got to get help when you need help. And you might need help at the bottom of your journey, when nothing’s going right. And you may need help at the top of your journey when everything from the outside is going perfect.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, and that’s the thing is like, I am an expert at burying this deep down. I’ve been doing it for years. And it took me a long time to get anyone to take me seriously. I had gone to a couple of different people and they’re like, “Oh, you seem fine. You don’t seem depressed.” And I’m like-
Shane Sams: Everything in your life is perfect. You’re getting your work done. You’re doing this, you’re doing that. A lot of people listen to you, blah, blah, blah.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah. So I was like, okay, apparently I’m fine, and I just kept going and kept going and kept going. And I did do things to try to get better. I did an online counseling thing for a while. I tried massage. I tried physical therapy because I was having some issues with my neck because I was holding that tension and anxiety in my neck and my upper back. I tried that. I tried something called dry needling. I mean I did all the work. I did all the things to try to get better. I did meditation, which I still do now. And it might have improved some, but I think I was just so far into that spiral I just couldn’t come out on my own. It sort of feels like you’re drowning and just your nose and mouth are about the water. So you can breathe, but you can’t do much else. And that’s pretty much how I felt for a long time. So I would just encourage you, if you’re feeling that way, go and get some help. Find someone who actually believes you, especially if you’re good at hiding things.
Jocelyn Sams: My psychiatrist that I go to, she said really most people who are in your situation, they wouldn’t even be able to function. And I was able to function fairly well in some circumstances, not all. And I think that that’s deceiving to people. They think well, if you can do well in this area then you’re totally fine, when I definitely wasn’t totally fine. So anyway, I’ve been working with this particular person since March and I have seen a very drastic improvement, which is very good. So anyway, if you’re struggling I encourage you to get some help.
Shane Sams: There’s online counseling. There’s people in your community. We drive an hour and a half to get to the person that Jocelyn works with now. So we drive 30 minutes to go get some counseling with Isaac to help him with his anxiety that he’s experiencing. Wherever you got to go don’t let your success trick you into thinking you’ve got this. And if it’s holding you back from success, take care of that first.
Jocelyn Sams: All right, what else do you feel like is holding you back right now as far as the business goes?
Shane Sams: I think probably the biggest business thing that I’m struggling with right now is really building a team and becoming a true CEO. Jocelyn and I really value our time, our freedom, and I think sometimes that makes us a little scared of leadership. Which is hilarious because we have this community of hundreds of people that we lead. And we have this podcast listenership in the thousands. I was reading the other day that only 18% of podcasts actually have recorded an episode in the last three months. So I’m like, okay, we’re already in that 18% and then I look and we’re always in the top 20 of business and marketing. So we’re probably one of the bigger podcasts in business and marketing. We’re not the biggest but we’re definitely up there. And it makes me laugh when I’m like, man, I struggle with leading and growing our team. We can grow our audience, we can grow our community, but we don’t really grow our team.
Shane Sams: Jocelyn and I have been burned on employees in the last couple years a number of times. We’ve made bad hires, we’ve struggled to get through those bad hires, to fire those bad hires, and to do different things. And we’ve always really resisted hiring people, especially full-time people. I feel like for the first time right now … We were up to 14 people working with us and now we’re down to probably six, counting a couple of contractors. But I’m really super happy with the people that we have now. I see the difference in what paying people and hiring really good employees makes a difference. Our executive assistant is incredible. Our personal assistant is incredible. Our editor is awesome. And we’ve got a couple really good contractors. Like for the first time I feel like we hired a contractor for our InfusionSoft account who’s really super attentive and does a really good job and always gets things right the first time. We’ve just seen a difference that hiring can make lately. And I was at a mastermind retreat with my mastermind.
Shane Sams: We drove down to Nashville for a couple of days and we all met together. We rented an Airbnb and we stayed and we just put it out there. Like what do you guys see that’s holding us back? And without question every man at the table said it’s your team. You guys won’t hire. You’re trying to do everything by yourself again and you’re really taking this all upon yourself and you have this fear of growing your team because you know it will make your job different. I know it won’t just be us on the mic and just us leading cool courses and just us helping people in our forums or at our Q&As. It’ll be okay, we’ve got to manage this team, we’ve got to have a meeting on Mondays and we’ve got to say hey, you do this, you do this. You’re in charge of marketing. You’re in charge of sales. You’re in charge of customer retention. You’re in charge of X, you’re in charge of Y, you’re in charge of Z. And there’s going to be a different vibe there. But I also know that we have a mission to grow our business to a point where we can reach as many people as possible.
Shane Sams: And it is not going to be possible to go to the next level without a true team. Full-time employees, benefits, running an actual bigger type corporation. I know that’s really on my mind right now from a business perspective and I’ve got to learn how to hire better. I’ve got to learn how to fire faster. I’ve got to learn what people need to do their job correctly. We’ve got to be able to sacrifice something to hire these people, income and things like that, and I know hiring at a high level is where we want to go. So I’ve been reading a lot of books. I’ve been getting up every morning and reading three devotionals on leadership. I’ve got this one called … It’s the Maxwell Daily Promises or something like that and it’s a bible devotional based for leaders. And then I’ve got another one called Jesus CEO. I’ve been reading a chapter of that every morning. And I’ve got another one called Make It Better or something like that where it’s like daily devotionals about mindset.
Shane Sams: So I’ve been pouring leadership teachings into my brain. I’ve been reading this amazing book called Who. I think it’s by … Is his name Geoff Smart or Geoffrey Smart?
Jocelyn Sams: I’m not really sure.
Shane Sams: It’s smart is his last name, but it’s called Who, W-H-O, and it’s all about creating amazing job descriptions and figuring out what you want and who’s going to lead your team, and putting all that together because we’ve kind of started moving toward hey, we’re going to figure this out on how to hire. We’re going to slow down, become great leaders, and maybe start hiring people next year. So I know that the scariest thing on my plate Jocelyn is hiring people. Because we’re talking real salaries. Not freelancers, not contractors, people that work for us, that we’re responsible for them and their family, and they are responsible to go to bed at night thinking about Flipped Lifestyle and how we can reach more families like you guys who are listening and convince you to take the leap and start and grow an online business and stick with it until the end.
Shane Sams: So that’s the big thing, I guess, for me is just it’s time to grow up and become a CEO. And that’s kind of terrifying because I don’t really want to grow up.
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, it’s definitely scary for me. I don’t know. It’s just a new level I guess. For me, there are several things that are holding me back right now. But I think that one of them is a fear of success, which we’ve talked about on the podcast before. And the reason that I fear it a little bit is because I know that with more success and potentially notoriety, comes a lot of negative things. And we always have haters no matter what we do, but I feel like the more successful and the more visible you are, the more hate you are going to get. And that’s hard for me because people will bring things up that you’re already self conscious about and it just makes you feel really, really bad. So that’s part of it for me. I just don’t want to have to worry about it. And I guess I don’t want affirmation of something that I already see in myself that I don’t like.
Jocelyn Sams: So that scares me a little bit. Also, I feel just kind of lost right now in the business. We sold Elementary Librarian a while back a couple of years ago and that still bothers me. I feel like that is something that’s holding me back a little bit is just not knowing exactly what I’m doing and Shane and I have a lot of differences a lot of times because we do both own this business. We have very different ideas about what we should do and how we should do it, and I think sometimes that holds us back because we don’t really get a solid plan, we just sort of go on our way. And then we’re like, “Well what are you doing?” “Well I don’t know, what are you doing?”
Shane Sams: And there’s not third vote. There’s no third vote to help us, in the moment, figure things out sometimes. I think in the last year especially, we froze in those moments. When we are at the fork in the road and Jocelyn wants to go left and Shane wants to go right, we both just kind of don’t hit the brake and go off road right down the middle and crash. So it is hard. It’s just really hard. It’s a different dynamic. A lot of the people that we’re in masterminds with, they are solo in charge of their business and their spouse is not involved, and it’s like we have a dynamic that we have to deal with that I don’t think anyone else really understands unless you’re working with your spouse. It’s really hard to get that. So we’ve got to figure out better ways to either do both ideas, or figure out a compromise, or do one idea and not freeze. I think we froze in the last year and it’s kind of hurt our growth a little bit.
Jocelyn Sams: I think it’s hard for us too because we are very different, but in some ways we’re very similar. We both like to control things, and when you have two people who want to control things, that can be a little bit difficult. So I miss having my own projects that I can control and I can do all on my own. And I haven’t really had that in a while. So I’m hoping that when we start this hiring process that we can sort of, I guess-
Shane Sams: Create capacity to be able to explore other ideas, or something like that?
Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, and just we would have more defined roles. Right now we sort of do everything and we try to reach some kind of consensus together, but that’s kind of hard to do sometimes.
Shane Sams: All right, so let’s talk about action steps. Let’s wrap this thing up here a little bit. Jocelyn what do you think your next steps are? Now that we’ve kind of talked about all these things and we kind of see some things, some chapters coming to an end and some other chapters turning the page and opening up, like what do you think your next steps are? Not in the next 24 hours, but in the next 24 months. What does that look like? What do you think you want to do? What’s your vision or something you want to explore basically?
Jocelyn Sams: The first thing is I’m going to continue to get well. I talked earlier about dealing with anxiety and all that kind of stuff. So I’m continuing to work on that. That’s really my number one mission is just to get well. And beyond that I’ve had some ideas about wanting to expand into brick and mortar and service based businesses, and also some ideas about maybe going on some destination type trips for our live events. And I talked about that a little bit earlier. So again, if you’re interested in something like that, let us know at flippedlifestyle.com/survey. So that’s some of the things that are on my mind. I have a few other things also, but I’m trying to just take it one step at a time for right now.
Shane Sams: I think that’s a good tip for our listeners too. You don’t have to know in the moment what to do next as long as you’re at least thinking about what the next step is. It’s not always about just being so decisive that you do something. I mean that’s really where we want to go, but I love how you were just wrestling with it and thinking about it and just trying those things. I think what I really want to just keep working on is hiring. I’ve got another mastermind here at the end of August coming up where we’re meeting back. We’re basically starting to meet two or three times a year and focusing on goals for the next mastermind. And I really want to have a good idea in my head what the team is going to look like a year from now. And I want me and you Jocelyn to kind of talk through that. Jocelyn’s reading the book Who with me. We’re going to go make these scorecards out for these employees.
Shane Sams: I just want to make sure that we’re hiring A+, just amazing people. Like world class people to help us grow a world class brand. And also just to myself just to keep growing up, keep filling my head with leadership and knowing this was where it has to go because we can’t scale … We’ve always envisioned Flipped Lifestyle being the brand for the masses. All these people have such closed doors and they position themselves where no one can get to them and they have all these high end products. I was just listening to a guy the other day and he was like, “You should never sell to the masses. Screw the masses. Go find rich people with a lot of money and get some of their money.” And I’m like, what a terrible thing. I want to give everyone in America, every family, every person that wants to change their future, an opportunity to start, build, and grow their business and change their life like we did. We were working people. We were school teachers in southeast Kentucky and we made it out of that and found a way.
Shane Sams: I want to show people that path and I don’t want to close that off. But I want to make sure that we have the team in place to keep Flipped Lifestyle a lower cost membership, a place where anyone can go learn this stuff, and then reach as many of those people as possible, and we’re just not going to be able to do that alone. I think for me, especially over the next six months, is just one, learning how to be a leader, how to hire people. Two, doing things that we can do right now to increase revenue to make sure we have plenty of extra revenue streams to hire these people. And then go find those people.
Shane Sams: I may actually put a question on the survey. If you are interested in even working with the Flipped Lifestyle podcast and you have experience in retention or marketing, or we’re going to be looking for a web content manager. If you love our content and you love this kind of content and you’ve got experience producing this kind of content. I may put a couple of questions on the survey and you can just go tell us that you’re interested in working with us and when we get these job forms ready to go maybe you can apply for some of those jobs. Just stuff like that. I think just hiring is my number one focus for the next six months. And we’ll see where it goes.
Jocelyn Sams: Okay guys, we are going to wrap this thing up, but we would love to hear from you. I know some of you guys are out there listening and maybe you’ve never interacted with us and you think that we don’t even know that you’re out there listening. But we look all the time, we see people in different countries that are listening, different states, and we want to hear from you. So if you want to give us some feedback about our podcast and some other things that we’re doing, head over to flippedlifestyle.com/survey. We have not even created the survey as of right now, but we will-
Shane Sams: By the time you hear this it will be created. We’re recording this a little bit early. So we’re going to go make that survey as soon as we get done recording today.
Jocelyn Sams: So check it out and give us some feedback. We want to hear from you. And that means all of you, even you lurkers who don’t want to communicate.
Shane Sams: Don’t be shy y’all. Come fill out the survey. And also too, this is episode 300, seriously, I have a question for you. Why have you not joined the Flip Your Life Community? We are the most affordable, largest community of family focused entrepreneurs on the planet. Guys, you need to come and check out what’s going on. We have a super active community. People in there helping each other. People just like you. We literally have all the training you need to get started online. We can show you how to get your idea. We can help you build your product. We can help you set up your website.
Jocelyn Sams: And if you’ve been a member before, come back. We want you back. We have people come back all the time. We welcome you with open arms.
Shane Sams: Yeah, we have all kinds of different price points. Maybe you just need training courses right now. Maybe you just want to walk into the shallow end of the pool. Well we have a plan for that. Maybe you want to interact with me and Jocelyn twice a month literally live on our Q&As. They’re the funnest times of the month for us because we get to hang out with dozens and dozens of you guys from all over the world inside of those Q&As so that we can help you take your next steps just like we do on our podcast. Or maybe you need additional help. Maybe you need help promoting stuff. Maybe you need help working one on one. Whatever it is guys, we created this for you. That’s what the Flip Your Life Community is. It’s not about me and Jocelyn. We’ve already done it. It’s about you and your family’s future. Sometimes I get frustrated with you guys because I know we have thousands upon thousands of people listening to us every single week and so many of you just have never taken action. Maybe you have listened to all 300 episodes of the Flipped Lifestyle podcast and you haven’t done anything yet.
Shane Sams: Well, it’s time. I want to challenge you here today on our 300th episode of the podcast. Five years of doing this. If you have never taken that leap of faith, go join today at flippedlifestyle.com/flipyourlife. We’ve got plans where you can join for as little as $19 a month. You can get coaching from us on our Q&As twice a month for $49 a month. That’s our premium level membership. I highly recommend that you go try it. Give it a try. If you don’t ever try it you’ll never succeed. If you don’t do this now, then when will you ever do it? Guys it’s time to take action and go out there and check out all the things that we have for you inside of the Flip Your Life Community. So go to flippedlifestyle.com/flipyourlife and join today. Draw a line in the sand, let’s make it happen. We’ll help you do it together.
Shane Sams: All right guys, that wraps up episode 300. It has been an amazing ride for five years doing this podcast. We commit to you that we will be here for you every single week helping people from the Flip Your Life Community change their lives. Helping you by letting you listen in to those calls. And we’ve got a lot of great plans, a lot of surprises for you, coming up on the Flipped Lifestyle podcast. We want to make sure we’re bringing you the best content and giving you and your family the best chance at a better future. So thank you so much for listening. We are so grateful and so thankful for all the people that send us messages, follow us on social media, and join our community and listen every single week. And we want to be here for another 300 episodes with you guys.
Shane Sams: So thanks for tuning in. Until next time, get out there, take action. Join the Flip Your Life Community. Get started today and do whatever it takes to flip your life. We’ll see you next time.
Jocelyn Sams: Bye.
Links and resources mentioned on today’s show:
- Listener Survey
- PROLIFIC Monthly
- Flip Your Life LIVE 2019 Tickets & Registration Information
- Flip Your Life community
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